Curse

bluechestdude · Feb 24, 2007, 02:12 AM // 02:12

okay this may sound uneccassary but what weap mods do u use for gvg spike builds or pressure builds..

i already know u use a vamp or sundering, but what grip should u use for them (axe mainly but hammer info would be nice). i overhear someone say they use an elemental grip...but i tend to stick with the plus armour is that a good choice or not?
(oh i didnt really know where to put this if it is irrelevant to gvg section i gues move it to the war section)

Cursed Steelbringer · Feb 24, 2007, 03:32 AM // 03:32

You should always carry multiple weapon sets. The slots are there for a reason.^^

Normally a vampiric, an elemental and a zealous axe cover the most essential needs, with +30 life or +5 armor depending on your preference.

With hammer you usually carry a vampiric as main weapon for fighting, an elemental and maybe a furious one. Zealous could get you in theory more energy (with IAS) but in reality it isn't all that useful on a hammer because the time you don't hit someone, become blocked etc really adds up and together with the slow atttack speed of hammers the energy gain stays marginal at best.

Sundering is in all cases inferior to vampiric so you don't really need one of those.

Of course in special cases you may need other mods as well, depending on your build, but the ones listed here are those you want to always carry with you.

Sai Rith · Feb 24, 2007, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Yes, a +30 HP mod and +5 defense always mod are the two best possible grips. The +30 mod hsould best be used with the vamp however. Another possible (but not as useful) grip you can use is *axe/sword/hammer*mastery +1. When you are about to spike switch to it,spike and when you're done switch to your other weapons.

xiv · Feb 24, 2007, 05:15 AM // 05:15

ALWAYS take an elemental wep because warriors armour is against physical and not elemental so when u run weapon swaps then u git a +20 armour advantage over the wars. making u hit consistantly more.

Thom Bangalter · Feb 24, 2007, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Sundering/elemental/Zealous. Vamp and ebon are highly overrated.

Always health +30.

-.- · Feb 24, 2007, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Sundering sucks ass, Vampiric > Sundering.

Thom Bangalter · Feb 24, 2007, 08:07 AM // 08:07

vamp=I know exactly what shield to swap to.

stuntharley · Feb 24, 2007, 08:17 AM // 08:17

I use:

Sword:
Zealous
IDS
Vamp
Sundering

Axe:
Zealous
Icy Blade Axe
Vamp
Furious

Hammer:
Sundering
Vamp
Ice Breaker

Divinus Stella · Feb 24, 2007, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Vamp definately worth taking over sundering, vamp wins in so many different ways.

The shield swapping excuse is lame.
If you have a hammer warrior on you 10vsblunt is an obvious shield choice, sundering wont have any difference, if they change to elemental you keep the shield out regardless, unless you feel lucky choosing what elemental mod they picked :P

orthrus · Feb 24, 2007, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

Sundering/elemental/Zealous. Vamp and ebon are highly overrated.

Newsflash: Ebon is an elemental mod

Thom Bangalter · Feb 24, 2007, 02:01 PM // 14:01

REALLY? SINCE WHEN?

Ebon is overrated these days thanks to melandrus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

The shield swapping excuse is lame.
If you have a hammer warrior on you 10vsblunt is an obvious shield choice, sundering wont have any difference, if they change to elemental you keep the shield out regardless, unless you feel lucky choosing what elemental mod they picked :P

How is it lame? I know they're running slashing damage, so I get +10 armor. If they're using sundering, I have no idea if they're in the physical set or their elemental set unless there are visual clues. Not to mention how much damage you rake up when you hit a sundering bonus on an eviscerate.

Dzan · Feb 24, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

From a mathematical standpoint, Vamp is the clear winner. However, in the past month I've seen enough warriors in top 10 guilds use Sundering that I have to assume there is something to it.

Divinus Stella · Feb 24, 2007, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

REALLY? SINCE WHEN?

Ebon is overrated these days thanks to melandrus.

How is it lame? I know they're running slashing damage, so I get +10 armor. If they're using sundering, I have no idea if they're in the physical set or their elemental set unless there are visual clues. Not to mention how much damage you rake up when you hit a sundering bonus on an eviscerate.

It still makes no difference, if a warrior is bashing on you and you see vampiric you can swap to 10vs slashing, he can still swap to an elemental weapon after that, does it make any difference if the warrior starts bashing on you with vampiric or sundering other than the fact the vampiric dmg will do more damage over time and the extra vampiric damage will ignore armour and prot such as prot spirit, shield and hands, it also wont contribure to more healing from skills like reversal and the weapon spells.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzan

From a mathematical standpoint, Vamp is the clear winner. However, in the past month I've seen enough warriors in top 10 guilds use Sundering that I have to assume there is something to it.

Thats just because they are lazy/bad warriors often.

FoxBat · Feb 24, 2007, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

It still makes no difference, if a warrior is bashing on you and you see vampiric you can swap to 10vs slashing, he can still swap to an elemental weapon after that,

I don't think any special numbers fly up to let you know that the shield the enemy is wearing is indeed a +10 vs slashing shield. Hows the vamp sword guy know that it's worth switching then?

Quote:

Thats just because they are lazy/bad warriors often.

Remember kids, the top 10 got there by often being lazy or bad.

I'd suggest the reverse is true. These days vampiric is a better choice against bad/lazy casters that don't have their +10 armor shield sets.

Divinus Stella · Feb 24, 2007, 05:20 PM // 17:20

You can use your eyes and look at the enemy, if they swap to a shield then use an elemental, sundering has no advantage over vampiric in the shield swapping respect.

tomcruisejr · Feb 24, 2007, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzan

From a mathematical standpoint, Vamp is the clear winner. However, in the past month I've seen enough warriors in top 10 guilds use Sundering that I have to assume there is something to it.

PvP Primer excerpt

"Armor Penetration

Armor penetration removes a percentage of your armor for that particular hit. For example, 25% armor penetration on a 60 AL (armor level) target would hit as if it had 45 AL instead.

Game Tip
Because armor penetration works off a percentage, the more armor the target has, the greater total efficiency you derive from armor penetration. With 20% penetration, you strike a 100 AL target as if it had 80 AL (-20 AL), compared to a 60 AL target, which you strike as if it had 48 AL (-12 AL). However, despite this increased efficiency, higher armor is still higher armor, and a hit against 80 AL does a lot less damage than a hit against 48 AL. In general, seek to strike the target with the lowest AL possible to do the most damage."

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Armor_penetration

Bonus armor penetration is an additional armor penetration value which is usually listed in game with a preceding plus sign, such as "+20% armor penetration." Bonus AP does stack with base AP and other sources of bonus AP. Sources include:

* Sundering weapon upgrades
* MonkJudge's Insight
* RangerHornbow-type bows

Maybe that's the reason? idk im not sure too.

FoxBat · Feb 24, 2007, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

You can use your eyes and look at the enemy, if they swap to a shield then use an elemental, sundering has no advantage over vampiric in the shield swapping respect.

If someones getting hit and doesn't need to cast stuff at the moment, they are going to switch to a shield regardless. The only question is what kind of shield If you assume they go slashing when they see your vampiric, then you have to go with elemental swap. But if they are getting hit by sundering, they might not put on the slashing shield, and go with something more generic (or maybe catch you with ebon if you were that silly). Assuming no armor differences, sundering isn't great but it is still slightly better than elemental, so its advantageous to be catching them with their slashing down w/sundering as much as you can. Use all 3 if you really want to play mind games.

They can even bring +10 vs slashing focus items if they really want too...

Patrick Smit · Feb 24, 2007, 07:33 PM // 19:33

some numbers, when u score a critical u do with 20% armor penetration 15/15/14 damage (vs 60/80/100 AL) more in 1 hit with an axe. So at max damage there is technically no difference with vamp or sundering in average damage, but the spike capacity of axe is therefor higher (1 out of 5 hits has nicely increased damage). The max dmg on vamp axe is 64+3 vs 60 AL, 79 for a sundering axe with 20% AP applied, only 64 when sundering fails to trigger. So if u look for spike potential sundering is the winner, while constant damage output favors vampiric.

For vamp axe versus 100AL results in 32+3 damage, sundering axe +20% AP applied results 46 damage. Again the potential is higher for sundering weapons, though its stochastic in nature. With 2 melee involved in each spike that would result in approximately 40% of the spike phases (a phase being one hit) being stronger than with vamp weapons. With three melee this even increases to more. I will try to approximate later as i have to refresh my binomial calculus.

Edit:
1 melee will give 20% of increased damage per strike phase
2 melee will give 36% of increased damage per strike phase
3 melee will give 49% of increased damage per strike phase
4 melee will give 59% of increased damage per strike phase

With non critical hits the damage potential is quite a bit lower, but adding some GftE would be very interesting in a sundering weapon build.

FoxBat · Feb 24, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

You can use your eyes and look at the enemy, if they swap to a shield then use an elemental, sundering has no advantage over vampiric in the shield swapping respect.

If someones getting hit and doesn't need to cast stuff at the moment, they are going to switch to a shield regardless. The only question is what kind of shield If you assume they go slashing when they see your vampiric, then you have to go with elemental swap. But if they are getting hit by sundering, they might not put on the slashing shield, and go with something more generic (or maybe catch you with ebon if you were that silly). Assuming no armor differences, sundering isn't great but it is still slightly better than elemental, so its advantageous to be catching them with their slashing down w/sundering as much as you can. Use all 3 if you really want to play mind games.

They can even bring +10 vs slashing focus items if they really want too...

Divinus Stella · Feb 24, 2007, 07:40 PM // 19:40

If a warrior is hitting you with any sort of slashing weapon you use a 10vs slashing shield, if the wariror is using a a sword and starts beating on you, you will swap to a 10vs slashing (unless its a Jitte), it doesnt matter if its vampiric or sundering, you still use a slashing shield.

The truth of the matter is that most people dont have 10vs everything shields, and most warriors never swap from their sundering weapons.

As far as damage goes a Scythe will score an 80dmg crit on a 60AL target, when sundering kicks in that goes up to 98dmg.
Thats 18dmg every 5 hits (3.6 per hit) a vampiric will do +5 per hit.
So even if you are using a scythe and get 100% crits the vampiric mod still does 30% more damage, thats the BEST sundering can do, so on any other weapons sundering is even worse, this isnt even taking into account that the sundering damage is effected by prot spirit.

The "sundering is better for spiking" argument is pointless, you only get the extra dmg from sundering once in every 5 hits, if you desperately need the extra 8 dmg a sundering weapon will score over the vamp once in every 5 spikes to kill then your spike sucks.